Didn't Tongues Cease after the Apostles Died out?
I was taught in the church of my childhood that tongues, prophecy, and the working of miracles all died out when the last apostle passed away.
But let's examine history, to see if it's actually true!
40 years after John died, Justin Martyr wrote that all the gifts of the Spirit continued just as before.
"Dialogue with Trypho," chap 82. http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/01286.htm
In the year 150 A.D., 50 years after the Apostle John died, Irenaeus, a disciple of Polycarp (who was a pupil of the Apostle John) wrote,
“In like manner do we also hear many brethren in the Church who possess prophetic gifts, and who through the Spirit speak all kinds of language and bring to light for the general benefit the hidden things of men and declare the mysteries of God, whom also the apostles term spiritual..."
Irenaeus, The Anti-Nicene Fathers, Ten Volume, New York: Charles xScribner’s 1885, Book III pg. 531.
Tertullian, who lived from 160 to 220 A.D, in his book "Against Marcion," challenges Marcion to produce anything among his followers such as was common among Tertullian’s:
“Let him exhibit prophets such as have spoken, not by human sense but with the Spirit of God, such as have predicted things to come, and have made manifest the secrets of the heart; let him produce a psalm, a vision a prayer, only let it be by the Spirit in an ecstasy, that is, in a rapture, whenever an interpretation of tongues has occurred to him" Tertullian, The Anti Nicene Fathers, Ten Volume, New York: Charles Scribner’s 1885, Book III pp. 445-447
If tongues passed away when the Apostles died out, what was Justin Martyr talking about?
What was Iranaeus talking about?
What was Tertullian talking about?
However, as the Roman Catholic church grasped for power, the church suffered. Just as Paul prophesied, grievous wolves entered the flock, and the sheep were not spared. Many true Christians were put to death for refusing to go along with the new state church.
How did the gifts of the Spirit fare, under the Catholic church?
"Saint" Augustine of Hippo, around 400 A.D, said the early sign of tongues had ceased, because that sign was fulfilled by the Catholic church taking over the whole world. He said the early church, though small, spoke all the languages of the earth. But now, the great catholic church was speaking all the languages of the earth, naturally. So, he said tongues were no longer needed. He said they had passed away!
So, the doctrine that says tongues passed away, actually originated in the Catholic church!
Which begs the question...
If tongues passed away, why did they wait to do so, until the apostate Catholic Church took over?
......................
The Biblical basis for the idea that tongues have passed away, is found only in a possible interpretation of 1 Corinthians 13:8, which says...
"Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away."
So, yes, it says clearly that tongues shall cease.
But does it say when they will cease?
Let's look at the context:
1Corinthians 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
The Bible does say that the gifts of prophecy, tongues, and knowledge will come to an end.
And this will happen when "that which is perfect" will come.
Many claim this is talking about the books of the New Testament being compiled into one volume.
That the New Testament is "that which is perfect."
Is that what this passage is talking about?
Does this passage say it's talking about the writing of Scripture?
No. Not at all!
You have to want it to say that, to imagine it's in there!
What this passage is obviously saying is that
when we see Jesus face to face,
then we will no longer operate in the gifts of the Spirit. We won't need them anymore.
Those gifts of the Spirit is how the Holy Spirit guides, comforts and teaches us in this life.
But when the church all gets to heaven, the Holy Spirit's work on earth will be over.
We all still see through a glass, darkly. All of our gifts of the Spirit are still in part. We cannot prophesy all things. We cannot know all things. But when we get to heaven, and look into God's eyes, then we will know Him as He knows us. And then, all the gifts of the Spirit will have expired. No need for them anymore.
As I said, using verse 8 to say that tongues all died out over 1800 years ago is a possible interpretation... but it's obviously a wrong one. Just because you could interpret a verse to support an idea, doesn't mean you should use it that way.
..........................
There are actually many instances of things like speaking in tongues, prophecy, and miracles happening since the Reformation began.
But that needs to wait for another post.
Stay tuned!
But let's examine history, to see if it's actually true!
40 years after John died, Justin Martyr wrote that all the gifts of the Spirit continued just as before.
"Dialogue with Trypho," chap 82. http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/01286.htm
In the year 150 A.D., 50 years after the Apostle John died, Irenaeus, a disciple of Polycarp (who was a pupil of the Apostle John) wrote,
“In like manner do we also hear many brethren in the Church who possess prophetic gifts, and who through the Spirit speak all kinds of language and bring to light for the general benefit the hidden things of men and declare the mysteries of God, whom also the apostles term spiritual..."
Irenaeus, The Anti-Nicene Fathers, Ten Volume, New York: Charles xScribner’s 1885, Book III pg. 531.
Tertullian, who lived from 160 to 220 A.D, in his book "Against Marcion," challenges Marcion to produce anything among his followers such as was common among Tertullian’s:
“Let him exhibit prophets such as have spoken, not by human sense but with the Spirit of God, such as have predicted things to come, and have made manifest the secrets of the heart; let him produce a psalm, a vision a prayer, only let it be by the Spirit in an ecstasy, that is, in a rapture, whenever an interpretation of tongues has occurred to him" Tertullian, The Anti Nicene Fathers, Ten Volume, New York: Charles Scribner’s 1885, Book III pp. 445-447
If tongues passed away when the Apostles died out, what was Justin Martyr talking about?
What was Iranaeus talking about?
What was Tertullian talking about?
However, as the Roman Catholic church grasped for power, the church suffered. Just as Paul prophesied, grievous wolves entered the flock, and the sheep were not spared. Many true Christians were put to death for refusing to go along with the new state church.
How did the gifts of the Spirit fare, under the Catholic church?
"Saint" Augustine of Hippo, around 400 A.D, said the early sign of tongues had ceased, because that sign was fulfilled by the Catholic church taking over the whole world. He said the early church, though small, spoke all the languages of the earth. But now, the great catholic church was speaking all the languages of the earth, naturally. So, he said tongues were no longer needed. He said they had passed away!
So, the doctrine that says tongues passed away, actually originated in the Catholic church!
Which begs the question...
If tongues passed away, why did they wait to do so, until the apostate Catholic Church took over?
......................
The Biblical basis for the idea that tongues have passed away, is found only in a possible interpretation of 1 Corinthians 13:8, which says...
"Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away."
So, yes, it says clearly that tongues shall cease.
But does it say when they will cease?
Let's look at the context:
1Corinthians 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
The Bible does say that the gifts of prophecy, tongues, and knowledge will come to an end.
And this will happen when "that which is perfect" will come.
Many claim this is talking about the books of the New Testament being compiled into one volume.
That the New Testament is "that which is perfect."
Is that what this passage is talking about?
Does this passage say it's talking about the writing of Scripture?
No. Not at all!
You have to want it to say that, to imagine it's in there!
What this passage is obviously saying is that
when we see Jesus face to face,
then we will no longer operate in the gifts of the Spirit. We won't need them anymore.
Those gifts of the Spirit is how the Holy Spirit guides, comforts and teaches us in this life.
But when the church all gets to heaven, the Holy Spirit's work on earth will be over.
We all still see through a glass, darkly. All of our gifts of the Spirit are still in part. We cannot prophesy all things. We cannot know all things. But when we get to heaven, and look into God's eyes, then we will know Him as He knows us. And then, all the gifts of the Spirit will have expired. No need for them anymore.
As I said, using verse 8 to say that tongues all died out over 1800 years ago is a possible interpretation... but it's obviously a wrong one. Just because you could interpret a verse to support an idea, doesn't mean you should use it that way.
..........................
There are actually many instances of things like speaking in tongues, prophecy, and miracles happening since the Reformation began.
But that needs to wait for another post.
Stay tuned!
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